Skinny Bellinky Long Legs

Poor old Molo, is a shadow of his former self since losing his buddy, the lovely Dermot at the end of last year. I knew it would be a bit of a long haul with it being winter and all, but hoped that by the time the grass came he would pick up. I think finally, mentally he has turned the corner but physically he's in a state, no muscle, no top-line..22yrs old TB I know it's tricky but I need to get some weight/muscle on him before autumn, which is only around the corner, arrives. He's on the grass we have, he has 3x high protein feeds a day, s. beet, tried soya etc.including several additives. my question, has anyone used Blue chip or anything like with success?? I'm certain the p. biotic would probably help as I'm sure he has hindgut damage but at £40 a bag it would be good if someone could recommend it or something like, things have moved on so much since I left UK, but I'm back at the weekend and will get some if you think it may help my hatrack!!
Pen

To get weight on my old mare I used to give her Baileys
number one with sugar beet and alfa
number 4 for top line and condition is good too
nafs pink powder is good too
soya oil for horses

Thanks jann, hadn't thought of Bailey's [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I'll have a google [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Pen x

Not scientifi-cally but personally and practi -cally [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
with skinny ones that arrive generally I don't overdo the grains from the point of view of the gut needing time to catch up and not overloading it and I prefer closer to natural ways of improving digestion so firstly adlib hay , four feeds a day of beet pulp ( warm ) Alfa A ( I think the important bit ) , a handful of mais floconné , destrier club thrown in the mix or similar for vits plus prepared linseed oil
There are no technical reasons behind using this recipé but if you see how Udan ( in the rescues ) along with wormer in his case , he gained alot of weight in under three months without being overloaded

I used ultimate balancer and the results were astounding, I think though as he is an old boy he may not be absorbing what you are giving him, so maybe he could do with an "old horse" feed, I also boil up linseed. Barley rings are also supposed to be really good.

I am going to the UK Friday with the truck, so if you want anything, I have a place I order it from and I can bring it down for you.

Not much of an expert with horse feeds, especially for building up horses as I usually have the opposite problem. But I read one nutritionist advice on soya oil which she doesn't recommend, instead she suggests using Linseed or rice oil, which I can see from the posts here that some people use. This is what she said:

"I don't like soybean oil because it is high in omega 6 fatty acids, which promote inflammation. So, I much prefer to offer rice bran oil or linseed oil,
instead. These oils have beneficial properties (linseed has omega 3
which reduce inflammation and improve mental state; rice bran oil contains gamma oryzanol which boosts performance and muscle mass)"

Linseed oil I believe is also better for the joints so for an older horse probably more beneficial also.

Thanks for your input everyone, I've had a chat to someone from Baileys and decided to go with Top line conditioning mix. To start with just that,as adding oils suppliments etc will affect the balance of the feed. I think once I can get some sort of weight on I may well move on and try the barley rings and definately the linseed oil. Dermot had 10 years on this chap and was also TB, up to the final 18mths it was always a matter of trying to keep it off, not put it on [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Pen

Interesting about the soya oil
I know the French girls give their horses
omega3 from the supermarket
you learn every day with horses

Poor old Molo [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I used to give mine Blue Chip balancer and Aran used to get Blue Chip Dynamic for his joints back in the UK. They loved it and were really good on it.

It sounds as though it might be more of a psychological problem though or even some medical problem. Has he had an overall check up? Has he found a new pair bond?

The natural animal centre reckon this pyramid should essentially be in place before any problem can be resolved. Starting with the most important

1.Reaction and response - the ability to react and feel safe from threatening things
2. Grazing and drinking
3. Body care - grooming, stretching, rolling, evacuation
4. Rest and sleep
5. Motion -running, play, exercise
6. Exploration and investigation
7. Territorialism - ability to use individual and herd space
8. Association - pair bonding, play
9. Problem

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I don't know if you remember when he came to me Felicity, but it was originally to convalesce following a long term infection, and certainly after a month here he started to improve physically but became unrecognisable to the point of being dangerous, he couldn't cope with being responsible for Dermot who he basically saw as his "female" and threatened other horses and sometimes us who tried to do anything with Dermot, this is a behaviour I've never witnessed before in such a short space of time, it was an obsession. Due to lots of circumstances he has stayed with us, I did think once Dermot had gone he would go one way or the other, he is now at the bottom of the pecking order and is therefore a lot easier and safer for us to handle, but he does just look so poor, the vet says he's fine and it's better that as an old horse he is carrying less weight, but as much as I like my vet this is a point on which we agree to differ. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Pen

Ooh yes! that's was exactly how Oscar was behaving. Scary isn't it? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Just wondering if the long term infection has caused something to malfunction but I suppose if the vet says he's ok.....

A bit of a mystery [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I'll keep thinking [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I give 16+ to Bianca in the winter amongst other things and she seems to do well on that. It smells lovely [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

like cally i would give lots of small feeds at regular intervals to stimulate the digestive system and would include damp hay to aid digestion and ensure water intake, i thought it was a well known theory of animal husbandry to do so in order to increase body weight, i would also do a worm count, does'nt cost much, but i have known even well looking horses to have red worm, the food of choice i would use is boiled barley as an additive three times a week, if this horse is poor there can't be too much danger of over vitaminising him within reason, the horse granules from morel horse feeds made near st lo are very fattening i find and are cheap. a good product for gut bacteria is edya form made in calvados its a probiotic but unlike a lot of others it is stabilised during production, it is also based on barleygrain and used by a lot of top breeders and can be delivered to your door.

Pen,

if you want to split a bag of linseed with me I will be more than happy. I haven't brought a sac because I only need it for one at the moment. Get the feed grade one (about 10 euro's) and make sure they don't try to sell you the bird grade one (38 euro's - got caught out badly!)

Di
xx

Thanks Di for the offer and I may take you up on your offer later in the year if we don't get a result.

Tristar,as a matter of interest who does your worm counts and how much do they charge you please? I have been having mine done in Jersey but unfortunately the lab has closed for the time being.
Pen

i don't do worm counts unless something alerts attention as i stick to strict worming etc, and field cleaning, and only have home born youngster so no incoming probs, ijust suggesed it as he is obviously well cared for, i think the last one done was by the vet but i forgot which one.

Not sure whether to post here or start another thread. But how many people remember old ways of feeding, before all these ready package feeds for all types of horses and work load started? Not to mention all the additives. I remember one yard I used feeding Guiness or brown ale to horses for the gut.

Sometimes I think it would be good to go back to the old ways of doing things and take away some of the hit and miss with buying feed.

Are there any more suggestions about what horse owners fed years ago? I would be interested to hear them.

when we were young we used to buy fresh rolled oats, they were huge flat things and came from scotland, and great big flakes of broad bran, i am not exagerating, wonderful feed, and make up our own cococtions, burn the cooker with boiled barley and linseed, collert hay by hand and put in our own chioce of vits and minerals, a conceen today is the source of the protein in made up feeds, most of which contain synthetic vitamins.

I used to love making up the feeds from 'straights' and if we found eggs lying around from stray hens then they'd get bunged in too! We'd add equivite and molasses and I used to love that smell of the barley cooking or the linseed in the winter. It all took a lot longer but it was a real big important part of the day and never felt a chore. Bran actually came in hessian sacks too which were so handy for collecting shavings from the local woodyard or cutting open and using them for carrying muck to the muckheap instead of a barrow.
We used to have a hand cranked chaff cutter too!

Pen,

take your "samples" into the vets and they send them off to the lab, 48 hours you have the results. Sue knows more about it she had it done on Dougie Donkey!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] WEC or worm egg counts used to be one of my jobs when I worked at a vet's many years ago. Didn't mind the horse/donkey ones but the dog and cat or any other meat eater used to make me gag! Fortunately we had a fume cabinet for that but even so trying to measure out a gram of it [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] , yuck!