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 Shoeing

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Rona

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PostSubject: Shoeing   Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:14 am

I mentioned on my other posting about itchy horse that my mare had been lame on the off-fore for a couple of months off and on and the oesteopath disgnosed bad shoeing as the reason. Actually looking bad it was appauling shoeing! But anyway the new farrier arrived and took off about an inch all round tutting all the time and trimmed the frog well proud of the sole - noticeably on the ground - something the horses are not used to. He cold shoed them and left the shoe hanging out all round. With the use of brushing and overreach boots this seems to be manageable but what concerns me is the mare is not a happy bunny. She is footsore and uncomfortable and that worrying little bit of lameness on the near fore has returned now we are trotting again. It's very hard out there I know and she is after all, 15. But does anyone else have any experience of hard trimming - frogs on hard/stoney ground - resulting footsoreness? Also the frogs have been cut up a bit. I am just worried about it - I'm not used to this approach to shoeing. It's supposed to be the new best thing but perhaps I am old-fashioned?
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:28 am

Hello
Any chance of a photo or two ? then it might be easier to see if something looks odd from the point of view of members
I like the idea of the frog on the ground for circulation
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Rona

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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:57 am

Could do but not much to see. The torn bits of the frogs have come off and the shoeing sticking out all the way round is not the problem as that can be managed with booting. It's just if frogs have a blood supply then they also must have nerves and the idea of that constantly going down on sharp stones seems to me not right. Perhaps it's a case of hardening the frog up like feet of sailors on clipper ships or Africans in the bush (in the old days that is - showing my age or rather my reading choice!). By the way found a fab master saddler. Shall I send details?
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Azaria
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:27 am

Hi Rona, without seeing the mare's feet it's difficult, however, the frog should come into contact with the ground with each step, but should not be trimmed excessively, only dead tissue should be removed. I don't think this is in your mares case, but sometimes a farrier may have to take off more frog than perhaps he would like if the horse has thrush, "shaggy" frogs would indicate this along with smelly feet, if this is done then I would expect the horse to be foot sore for a couple of days. My old boy would always get thrush in the winter, and sometimes my farrier would have to do quite radical trimming of his frogs, to harden them and to even help with the thrush I would scrub his feet out with hibiscrub and then when dry put on an astringent like purple spray or if I was "flush" eucalyptus oil, you don't want to dry the frog out too much but it certainly helped harden them up.
Re; your saddler, please do post the details. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Rona

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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:47 am

Thanks Pen. I had a very good look at the soles/shoes/frog today before walking the horses out. Because the horses are cold shoed, the shoe does not seem to be made to fit the actual foot - same on both horses. On the mare's fores the shoes seems to be digging right in to the back of the frog/heel. Looks rather uncomfortable to me. She is still footsore and not happy plus lame downhill after 2 and a half weeks. Started off okay getting worse. I am going to ask the English Master Farrier who is coming to see local friends on mine on the 1st July if he would come over on a sort of consultancy basis to double check those shoes. I once had a horse off for nine months after being shoed by a farrier who was proud of his new and special methods. I don't want that happening again! Meanwhile will look out lovely master saddler details and start new thread.
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Azaria
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:25 am

Doesn't sound right, her being lame going downhill, although that wouldn't necessarily point to her feet, but she shouldn't be foot sore anyway! I think having someone else take a look is an excellent opportunity, even if it's just to put your mind at rest. (I envy you that)
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:36 pm

My OH started farrier training as a mature student but had to give up after injury, he got really good marks all the way through too!
since he is also a qualified enginneer he took to the mecanics of the foot as though it was a machine (which in a way it is) his opinion is many farriers are to be blunt ...cr*p
only out to make max money from as quick & poor a job as possible, & just because they managed to qualify does not mean they will do an exam worthy job in the real world.

we have seen a few demonstrations of farriery at country shows here in france, he had to walk away just in case the farrier understood his muttering as he was so disgusted by the quality.

when he did his college bit he got some legs and feet from the abbatoir to study anatomy better, he also looked to see if he could tell what leg /foot problems the horse had which might have got it to the abatoir in the 1st place, he found in his random selection about 50% had problems he could blame on poor footcare or bad shoeing which would have caused lameness, inc' nail bind, bad shoe fitting, unbalanced foot=bad trimming, wrong type of nail causing splits, even 1 poor horse with a hind shoe on a fore foot (or the other way round?) held on with carpenters nails.

i have hardly ever had shoes on any of my ponies or horses, even the TB's in 30 + years, admittedly not doing competitions except local stuff. and mostly hacking on verges and tracks.

i hope your expert farrier can clear up why there is a problem, off/on lameness is so annoying, good luck bye [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Rona

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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:02 am

Yes love the no-shoes bit and have been there in Hampshire on sand but here it's tracks - hard granite and stoney so no go. The English master farrier is coming over on Thursday morning on a sort of consultancy basis and I feel very lucky to get such a quick visit because I am sharing an appointment with local friends. I'm not going ride either horse till then just in case.

The stupid part of all this is that both my horses are arab-Xs and both have fabulous iron hard feet and in England I never had a moment's concern foot-wise. Having had thoroughbreds and Irish sport horses before with horrible feet it's quite upsetting to have these two footsore, and I will be pretty cross if this second posh farrier has caused problems.
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Azaria
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:32 pm

Would you consider going the boot route, I have several friends who ride in "old mac" boots take a look at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to find information on the best hoof boots available and on natural hoofcare, along with access to professional hoof care organisation. Richard came to me today I told him to say "Hi" when he comes on thursday, let us know how you get on.
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Rona

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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:57 am

I have used Boa boots for my Irish horses when I have had to have the shoes off for months because they came to me with horrible feet. They are very good but quite hard to fit to include the fetlock padding and avoid rubs. They are the best boot I have come across but the thing is that these two horses I have now have fab feet and should not need anything but reasonably okay shoeing with correct trims and no fancy playing around with the heels etc. I am sure Richard will know one way or the other and it's such a relief to be able to get him.
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Azaria
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:20 am

Hi rona, just wondered how you got on with richard?
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Rona

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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:16 am

Hi Pen

Richard and Angie thought the shoes the "local" farrier had put on were quite good as they are seen some horrors in their travels in France. The problem is that he had not corrected the differing heights on the fores on the mare. Also to some extent as important, the cold shoeing meant that the shoes were not fitted to the shape of the feet. Herbert, for example, has worn the same U-shaped shoe for 23 years. The "local" farrier fitted him with round trotter shoes, and also, he'd put hinds on the fronts! Now this might be the new fashionable way to shoe in France etc etc, and this farrier was a great deal better than many, but I am with Richard when he says hot shoeing is better because you can fit properly and horses should not be on one stiletto and one flatty!! Long story short, Richard is coming back in three weeks to re-shoe my two properly and fingers crossed with might cure the mare's slight lameless. Now my big problem is how to tell the other farrier (who has rung up twice to check on the mare - he's a very nice bloke and speaks good English) that I don't want him to shoe again? Help! I think I'll tell him I'm off back to England (coward!!).
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:46 pm

I'm glad to hear the problem isn't to awful, hopefully one shoeing will make a lot of difference, as for your dilemma re. telling your french farrier..don't envy you that one [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I guess you've got to decide if you would ever use him again if circumstances were to change.
Why is life never easy. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:18 pm

How's your girl going Rona? It's been a month, just wondered if she's sound now.
Kind regards
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Rona

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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:37 am

Hi Pen
Well it's a jolly good thing Richard came because apparently the last farrier trimmed the feet so far back that it's going to take quite a while for the feet to recover. He says much more trimming like that and the feet could be ruined. I was pretty worried about. Also the last guy had put second-hand trotter shoes onto Herbert with used stud holes. Huh! Just because Herbert is 27 doesn't mean we just write him off!! Anyway the mare Galila appears to have a deep-seated abscess in that problem foot. All the signs point to it including a breech in the hoof wall about halfway up. Angela knows of one horse where the abscess took 2 years to come out of the coronet band! Pray poor Galila's problem does not take that long to sort out. Any experience of deep-seated abscess in the feet out there? x
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:14 am

horses who have their feet cut too short CAN develop bruising, contusion, and this can result in haematoma, bloodblister, in the hoof, it shows itself in slight lameness, which over time if not released and drained can become infected, a good vet can test the hoof and drain to blood or infection, but the important part is to give antibiotics to completely clear the infection once and for all, and it takes ages for hoof to grow back from being too short, which is helped by avoiding hard ground or putting on boots. i check the height of my horses heels by lifting the tail, standing directly behind the horse and look through the back legs at both heels to see if they are the same height or not. i have learned by persistance to study horses feet and learned to have the courage, not always easy, to discuss the problems with the farrier and ask for what i want.
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PostSubject: Re: Shoeing   Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:14 am

Your poor horses and you. So sorry to hear this saga, hope that your girl is ok, sorry don't have any experience with your problem so can't offer any advice but wish you the best of luck with her.
Just being nosey now, whereabouts were you in Hampshire? I was in the New Forest for 16 years before coming here 2 years ago.
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